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Friday 5 May 2017

Why can't China reverse engineer and copy the jet engine of Russia's Su 35?

SU 35

Why F-35 cannot beat SU-35


Sukhoi Su-35
Multirole fighter aircraft
The Sukhoi Su-35 is a designation for two separate, heavily upgraded derivatives of the Su-27 aircraft. Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,727 mph
Range: 2,237 mi
Weight: 40,570 lbs
Unit cost: 40,000,000–65,000,000 USD (2013)
Engine type: Saturn AL-31
Number built: Su-27M: 15; Su-35S: 58, 4 for export
Role: Multirole air superiority fighter


Because "reverse engineering" has never been the issue.  Every major government has access to this kind of technology now.  There difference between the "#1" and "#2" technologies is incredibly slim.  There isn't an issue with dissecting these things and making them work.   The shape of these airplanes isn't really the secret.  The chemical composition of the RAM in our "stealth" jets is pretty much common knowledge.  The avionics aren't that interesting.  The jet engines aren't really the secret either.  It's the INDUSTRIAL fabrication of them that is.  Looking at something and reverse engineering it is one thing, building an entire scale industry to produce it is another.

This is why, the US -- supplying weapons to a nation like Saudi Arabia -- is in fact a GOOD thing.  Saudi Arabia will get its weapons from someone (France, China, Russia).  The difference here is that Saudi Arabia has an entire defense industry 90% dependent upon the US for spare parts.  All advanced weapons require replacement parts and upkeep.  In the event that the Kingdom falls to militant factions within that nation, its current supply of $2.75 trillion in American weapons will be literally useless in less than one year if the US stops shipping it spare parts.

They could send our planes to China or Russia to be dissected.  But those defense industries would only feel a "trickle down" of that technology that would take YEARS to incorporate into the wider production of weapons.  By the time they have a "Eureka!" moment with the new American tech, the US will be on to something else.  Meanwhile, without the special guidance chips (that frequently need replacing in every American tank and jet fighter) along with a great deal of spare parts and -- of course -- ammunition, the entire Saudi military will grind to a halt in less than a year in the event of a full cut-off of American weapons (this is what happened in Iran in the end of the 70's).   

No matter who "reverse engineers" these things, there is no way for any other nation to equitably replicate them industrially.  The only thing to do is to scrap every piece of complex weaponry and switch to someone else (incredibly, catastrophically expensive).  It's why nations like Russia and the US casually sell weapons to certain nations.  As much as everybody else likes to think that "we're arming bad guys", it's about control.  The more of "our weapons" they buy, the more they invest in an entire Anglospehre (American, Canadian, British and Australian) weapons platform, the more they must continue investing in that.  It's a leash.  One wrong move and every spare part is cut off and the entire military grinds to a halt.

China gets too many weapons and technologies from Russia to try to replicate what Russia does (in an obvious fashion).  But it certainly dissects anything it gets its hands on and hands that information out to its technology industries.  This is precisely what the Obama administration is suing China over.


Need to set the record straight :



Yakovlev Yak-141 at the 1992 Farnborough Airshow
Role VTOL fighter aircraft
Manufacturer Yakovlev
First flight 9 March 1987
Status Cancelled in August 1991
Primary user Soviet Navy
Number built 4[

The picture above shows the Russian Yak-141 TVC Nozzle. In the 1990's, the United States brought its TVC technology and used it on F-35. While China brought it's R79-v300 engine technology and used it on WS-15.

US and Chinese jet engine design were heavily influenced by the R79–V300(206 kN engine used for the Yak 141). The R79–300 was referenced by the US to become the P&W F119 and F135, while it became the WS-10 and WS-15 in China. It is certainly not a bolt to nut copy because it will be impossible to do so, without a certain level of critical tech-knowhow and mature industries, which is why only the UNSC big 5 can produce jet engines with TWR> 8 and only the US, Russia and China can produce turbofan jet engine with TWR>10.[1]

Now let us take a look from another angle of this Sino-Russo deal which has been much hyped in the media.

So.. Why did China procure the 24 SU-35 from Russia?

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II
Multirole fighter
The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is a family of single-seat, single-engine, all-weather stealth multirole fighters. The fifth-generation combat aircraft is designed to perform ground attack and air defense missions. Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,199 mph
Range: 1,379 mi
Manufacturer: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics
Engine type: Pratt & Whitney F135
Number built: 231 as of March 2017
Developed from: Lockheed Martin X-35
Produced: 2006–present

Shenyang J-11
Air superiority fighter
The Shenyang J-11, with NATO reporting name Flanker B+, is a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter, whose airframe is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27 air superiority fighter. Wikipedia
Wingspan: 48′ 0″
Length: 72′
Number built: 253+ (as of February 2014)
Variants: Shenyang J-15; Shenyang J-16
First flight: 1998
Manufacturer: Shenyang Aircraft Corporation
Engine types: Shenyang WS-10, Saturn AL-31



To complement the insufficient production capability of J-10s and J-11. J-10’s 4 production lines are at full capacity , while J-11 production line has to cope with increasing J-15 and J-16 demand by the Navy and Air Force.

Shenyang J-15
Carrier-based aircraft
The Shenyang J-15, also known as Flying Shark, is a carrier-based fighter aircraft in development by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and the 601 Institute for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy's aircraft carriers. Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,585 mph
Range: 2,175 mi
Weight: 38,580 lbs
Wingspan: 48′ 0″
Length: 72′
Number built: ~20
First flight: August 31, 2009

Shenyang J-16
Aircraft model
The Shenyang J-16 is a strike fighter designed and manufactured by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, China. Wikipedia
Wingspan: 48′ 0″
Length: 72′
Number built: 24+ reported built
Developed from: Shenyang J-11BS
Role: Multirole fighter
Manufacturer: Shenyang Aircraft Corporation

Introduction: 2013

 The SU-35’s overall capability exceeds the J-10C and J-11D, so by procuring the 4.5Gen SU-35s, it plugs a gap which can only be filled before a sizeable number of 5.0Gen J-20A enter active service, which is a few years away.

McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle
Fighter aircraft
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle is an American twin-engine, all-weather tactical fighter aircraft designed by McDonnell Douglas to gain and maintain air supremacy in aerial combat. Wikipedia
Speed: 1,875 mph
Length: 64′
Wingspan: 43′ 0″
Unit cost: 28,000,000–30,000,000 USD (1998)
Engine type: Pratt & Whitney F100
Number built: F-15A/B/C/D/J/DJ: 1,198
Manufacturers: McDonnell Douglas, Boeing Defense, Space & Security

SU-35 is a good and affordable 4.5-Gen fighter jet which cost no more than US$80 million per plane, less than the F-15SE/F, 18F/G or Rafale, representing value for money in a market where it is rare to find any good 4–4.5Gen fighter jets costing less than US$100 million.
The SU-35 deal also signify the good and amicable relationship between Russia and China as they bring their cooperation to a strategic partnership level.
A French Air Force Dassault Rafale at RIAT in 2009
Role Multirole fighter
National origin France
Manufacturer Dassault Aviation
First flight Rafale A demo: 4 July 1986; 30 years ago
Rafale C: 19 May 1991; 25 years ago
Introduction 18 May 2001; 15 years ago
Status In service
Primary users French Air Force
French Navy
Egyptian Air Force
Produced 1986–present
Number built 157 (as of April 2017)[1][2][3][4]
Program cost €45.9 billion (as of FY2013)[5] (US$62.7 billion)
Unit cost
Rafale B: €74M (flyaway cost, FY2013)[5]
Rafale C: €68.8M (flyaway cost, FY2013)[5]
Rafale M: €79M (flyaway cost, FY2011)[5]

The SU-35’s thrust vectoring technology could be analysed to help improve existing and future WS-series indigenous engines.
After so many flip-flop in decision, why did Russia finally decide to export the SU-35?
Chengdu J-10
Multirole fighter aircraft
The Chengdu J-10 is a lightweight multirole fighter aircraft capable of all-weather operation, configured with a delta wing and canard design, with fly-by-wire flight controls, and produced by the ... Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,446 mph
Range: 1,150 mi
Unit cost: 27,840,000–27,840,000 USD (2010)
Program cost: 500 million RMB allocated in 1982 (Project #10)
Role: Multirole combat aircraft
Engine type: Turbofan
Number built: ~400

Chengdu J-20
Aircraft model
The Chengdu J-20 is a stealth, twinjet, fifth-generation fighter aircraft developed by China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation for the People's Liberation Army Air Force. Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,305 mph
Length: 67′
Wingspan: 42′ 0″
Unit cost: US$110 million as of 2011
First flight: January 11, 2011
Number built: 8 prototypes and; 5 low rate initial production fighters
Status: In service

It is the increasing sophistication of Chinese engines which prompted Russia to approve the deal, because once Chinese aerospace industry achieved the critical breakthrough in enhancing engine lifespan, Russian jet fighter engines will no longer be an appealing option for the Chinese air force. Those who keep saying China cannot produce advanced jet fighter engines is in for a shock soon, as production of the WS-10 series engines hit the high 300s, with the WS-13, 15, 18 ,20 series coming on board soon. Recent aviation news indicates that the J-20 stealth fighter will be equipped with the 145-kN WS-10B turbofan.

McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet
Multirole fighter
The McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet is a twin-engine supersonic, all-weather carrier-capable multirole combat jet, designed as both a fighter and attack aircraft. Wikipedia
Top speed: 1,190 mph
Unit cost: 29,000,000–57,000,000 USD (2006)
Status: In service
Primary users: United States Navy; United States Marine Corps; Royal Australian Air Force; Spanish Air Force
Developed from: Northrop YF-17
Developed into: Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet; Boeing X-53 Active Aeroelastic Wing
Engine types: General Electric F404, Turbofan

Russia is simply striking while the iron is hot when those fighter jets still have value To China.



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